Bonus Episode: Marion Waruguru (WIN CEO)

In our bonus episodes, we speak to women from our Women's Interfaith Network (WIN) community to share their stories and give their own unique perspectives on keeping faith.

In our second bonus episode, WIN's CEO Marion Waruguru shares her journey with WIN since joining in 2005, the changes she’s seen in the interfaith space and her advice for aspiring leaders. 

Find out more about our team, our grassroots women's groups, and our shared meal project Food and Friendship with asylum seekers, refugees, and women from migrant backgrounds. 

Keeping Faith: A How-To Guide is part of Women’s Interfaith Network's 2024 Keeping Faith Programme. Read more about the programme here and be the first to hear about upcoming events and ways to get involved by signing up to our newsletter. Views expressed on this podcast are the speaker’s own and may not reflect the views of Women’s Interfaith Network.

Hosted by Maeve Carlin

Produced by Maeve Carlin and Adam Brichto

Edited by Adam Brichto

Executive Produced by Lady Gilda Levy

Theme music composed by Jamie Payne

Logo and Artwork designed by Jasey Finesilver

Support from Tara Corry

Transcript

Maeve Carlin:  Welcome to Keeping Faith: A How To guide, a new podcast from Women's Interfaith Network, exploring how women keep faith in ourselves, in each other, in a cause or in religious faith, so you can learn how to keep faith too. 

Maeve Carlin: I'm your host Maeve Carlin. And today, and our second bonus episode, we're speaking to WIN CEO, Marion Waruguru, who shares her journey with WIN, what she's learned along the way, as well as some tips for aspiring leaders. 

In each bonus episode, we'll be speaking to women from our Women's Interfaith Network community, sharing their stories and giving their own unique perspectives on keeping faith. We hope these bonus episodes will help unpack what this word interfaith, that you'll hear so much throughout the series really means to us, what it looks like on the ground, and learn more about the women who make women's interfaith network what it is. But for now, let's jump into our conversation with Marion Waruguru. 

Maeve Carlin: So Marion, welcome to the podcast. 

Marion Waruguru: Thank you for having me. 

Maeve Carlin: So you joined WIN in 2005, so you've been involved since almost the very beginning. Can you share how you first got involved and what drew you to interfaith work?

Marion Waruguru: Um, first of all I saw an advert actually in The Guardian. Um, I was looking for, a PA position actually and then I came across this advert for, uh, a development officer/administrator for Women's Interfaith Network. And straight away I saw women and I thought, this is attractive, you know, I'd love to work for a women's organization.

So that was the first draw. And then, obviously then applied for the job. And managed to get the job. So the main attraction was the women's factor and then the faith element. I said, Oh - first of all, I thought it was a religious organization. Like most people sometimes do think when they hear women's interfaith network, isn't it?

Um, and I thought, okay, um, “I'm religious. Um, I'm a Christian.” I wasn't a practicing Christian then. I've, I've kind of developed over time. So yes, so the women element and the faith element was very attractive. 

Maeve Carlin: It's so funny, isn't it? We all have different understandings when we see the words women's interfaith network and we often interact with people who they think, “Oh, I get the women's part, but what does the interfaith part mean? Or I get the interfaith part, but why would that be a women's organization?”

Marion Waruguru: Right. And why women? Why women and faith? 

Maeve Carlin: Exactly. Yes.

Marion Waruguru: This kind of question, yeah. 

Maeve Carlin: Which is so, I always find it very funny because it's always the people that say, you know, “why is it the Women's Interfaith Network? Why is it women's only?” And then the next sentence they say will be, “oh, we don't have any women involved in our interfaith organization.”

And you go, That's why. You've answered your own question. 

Marion Waruguru: Exactly. Exactly. I tell people that, um, yes, it's, it's a women led organization. Uh, too many words we couldn't put on the title, but, um, ideally what it is, it's women leading the faith organization, but men are allowed. And we do have men come to our events and we have men supporters, you know, as patrons, as people who attend our events as well. And they're very, very supportive. 

Maeve Carlin: Exactly. I think that women's led component is really important. And also the fact that any women's organization, you know, we need male allies and male supporters in the wider community in order for us to have the impact that we want to have. 

Marion Waruguru: Exactly. And also particularly because when it comes to the faith-based communities, whether it's the religious establishments or faith led organizations, majority of the leaders are men. And women kind of tend to take a backseat. So even being able to empower women in that way is, is very key. 

Maeve Carlin: And I think often, you know, we've seen this with so many of our members that they wouldn't call themselves leaders. We've seen them and they lead. They are leaders. 

Marion Waruguru: They do lead. 

Maeve Carlin: So it's WIN's 20th anniversary this year. But next year will be your 20th anniversary working at WIN, so it's been a long journey. What have been the biggest changes you've seen over the years, both in the organization and in the interfaith space more generally? 

Marion Waruguru: So when we started, it was a very, very small setup. So I was the only employee in 2005. And obviously now we have, we have three employees, which is great. And our membership was also not very large. We didn't have many women groups as we do have now. So I think we've become better known than we were when we started. 

And it's through the efforts of our chairperson, Gilda Levy. She's always been very instrumental in making sure that we are represented in as many organizations as possible. And also the interfaith world, as it has grown, with the now defunct interfaith network, we were able to also affiliate with other organizations and. And some women from also other organizations were willing to attend our events and support our work.

And as time has gone on, we've had, you know, women who just by attending our events say, “Oh, I could, you know, help start a group in such and such a place.” So yes, we have made quite a few strides. Um, and as, as well, I have grown a little bit older.

Maeve Carlin: I don't believe that for a second, Marion. You're ageless in my view. 

Marion Waruguru: Thank you. Inside, I haven't really changed, but obviously in knowledge, knowledge wise, there has been many personal changes. But in terms of feeling like, “Did I make the right decision? Is this the organization I wanted to be in?” That hasn't changed. So my instinct when I saw the women and the faith and I said “This! I would be interested in this”, that hasn't changed. And my interest has grown because I've learned more and more about, uh, the different faiths. I've met wonderful, wonderful women and the friendships that have been made along the journey. 

Maeve Carlin: Wow, that's so interesting how kind of your own journey with the organization really parallels the growth and the expansion and also the deepening of the connections and, that we've made with our communities, which are just so special to all of us.

And I think in so many of our episodes, we shout out our colleagues at the Interfaith Network for the UK, now closed. And I hope we can continue to do that because I think the more that we can give space for their legacy is really important. And I know so many of us in the sector feel that.

Marion Waruguru: Yeah, definitely. And, you know, we would like to keep in touch with the groups and hopefully, you know, plan a way forward because we all stand for the same thing. We all want to see a more respectable, uh, community, especially now, with the rise of anti Semitism and Islamophobia and other forms of hatred. Because we all want peace. We all want to bring people together to promote that understanding and obviously influence, as well, the government in the importance of having these organisations going. And also highlighting, especially, the work that interfaith organisations also led during COVID at a time when there was so much happening in the community. And because they're in touch, they're in the grassroots, like our groups working within in the grassroots, with the women and the people in the community, just being able to bring them together and give each other hope, really. That was something. As well as being involved in projects like food banks, soup kitchens where they could go and volunteer to serve. That was amazing. And, and, and I think the role of interfaith organizations and groups, the role they played during that time cannot be, um, ignored really. And we need to build up on that. 

Maeve Carlin: Exactly. I think so often it's, it's a case of, these organisations and the work they do is unsung, and the power of interfaith collaboration is underestimated. But my goodness, do we notice when it, when it's not there? 

Marion Waruguru: Yes, for sure. And our groups becoming so involved and feeling that we need to do something. You remember the meetings we had because we started meeting virtually for the first time with members. And everybody was thinking, you know, “what can I do?” Everybody was willing to just give an extra of themselves to make the world a better place at such a time. 

Maeve Carlin: I'll link in our show notes to a blog we wrote about some of the amazing work that our members did do during the pandemic. Because really, yeah, we can't sing their praises enough. They're all incredible community organisers in their own right. 

Marion Waruguru: Yeah. 

Maeve Carlin: Something you touched on there, and something we discussed in our last bonus episode, is this incredibly challenging period for interfaith work we're facing at the moment and that we're all trying to navigate together. Throughout our anniversary year, we're asking women what keeping faith means to them. So, how are you keeping faith right now? 

Marion Waruguru: So as a, as a practicing Christian, um, one of the things we believe in is that we have to keep faith alive, even personally in one's own journey. But, although things do look gloomy sometimes, but, um, what has kept me going as a Christian is the values that I hold as a Christian, I believe, can be translated in the community. So whether it's being more caring, more… just being present, more honest with what is happening and, and being somebody who can offer hope and courage when you find situations where things look like everything is falling apart.

I think keeping that faith as a person helps me to translate that into the work I do, in the women I encounter, whether it's when I'm visiting groups when they're doing their activities and we're able to encourage one another and sharing stories. You know, the stories that come up when we are talking. And also in the activities like what our Barnet group has done in the past, ‘Courageous Women of Faith’. They asked all their members of the various faiths because they are, the members actually have a range from Anglicans to Zoroastrians, so they have almost all the faiths represented. And what they did, they asked the women to go and research within their faith, any woman who has made an impact in their community, any, any women of faith, or none really - it didn't have to be that the woman had, had to be a woman of faith.

So all the faiths were represented, so they would do a research and they would come and speak about that woman. And for them, some of them found that really good for them because they had never thought of actually going to investigate any woman from their faith background, a courageous woman who had done anything.

So most said, “Oh, we've learned so much just by doing this activity as well as sharing with others.” You know, it gives them confidence as well to be able to do the research. Something they would not have thought of doing on their own, but because they're in this group and because they've agreed they're all going to do this activity, it enlightened them and increased their knowledge about women within their faith. 

I remember attending one of the series of the Courageous Women of Faith and said, “if they could do it in such circumstances, then it can still happen and women can still be the agents for change that we need to make the community better.” And I think that that keeps my faith, knowing that things can get better and women are instrumental in making that change happen.

Because also, with our work with the refugees, with the shared meals, for instance, talking to the asylum seekers and the refugees and thinking that these women have taken a bold step to leave. They are the most affected by the wars that happen within the countries that they come from. And others have gone through tremendous, tremendous problems. Domestic violence issues. They've lost their sons. They've lost their husbands. And they still keep the faith and still be able to migrate to another country and start a new life. I think that also keeps my faith going.

Maeve Carlin: Yeah, I mean, what an example of Courageous Women of Faith, the women that we've met. Women from migrant backgrounds or refugee women - incredible courage. 

I think that's a really important point about interfaith work that you've touched on there, is that in learning about other people you learn about yourself and that's something we don't talk about enough.

Marion Waruguru: Yes, because for instance, personally, as a Christian, the only women that I knew of, the courageous women that I know of, are the ones found in the Bible. And it never occurred to me to think that there could be other women apart from the women I'm reading about. So that activity by Barnet Women's Group was really enlightening for me, because then I was able to know about other women from other religions. And I think that cross sharing was very important for all of us. And I think also knowing what you think of, what you already know is not the only thing - it expands your world in a way that would have been kind of impossible if I wasn't listening to these women.

Maeve Carlin: Well, Marion, I've just got one last question for you. We often do a takeaway question for the listener at the end of our episodes. And I'd love to ask you what you would say to a woman who's either taking on a leadership position, or maybe feels uncomfortable to put herself forward for leadership, wondering how she can find and keep faith in herself as a leader?

Marion Waruguru: One of the things I think women struggle with is, uh, because we don't have a lot of examples of other women within our own religious establishments that are leading, we reach a certain stage and think that's how far we can go. And we cannot aspire, say, for trusteeship or, you know, being a vicar or a pastor, because you think “Oh, that’s a territory for men. So because we see very few women leaders in that area, we kind of stifle our own growth? But I would encourage people to, you know, put themselves forward, keep learning, embrace their strengths, because we all have strengths. 

And I think at the beginning you said we are all leaders in one way or another. We may not call ourselves leaders, but we are always leading something. We always leading within our families, you know, any decision we are making, leading ourselves. to be able to step out there and do whatever it is that we want to do. Leading in the activities, like you mentioned, Maeve, with the groups, like the same example with Barnet. 

So we have that in us. And it's the same thing that we can apply to progress our own leadership, you know, embrace those trends, the gifts that we have, the passions - because sometimes we forget - you know, to be better and to equip ourselves to be able to positively affect others.

Maeve Carlin: I love what you said there about keeping learning and think about the strengths you already have, because I think we have this idea that, in order to lead, we have to have reached this place of perfection, and it doesn't exist. 

Marion Waruguru: No, it doesn't. 

Maeve Carlin: It doesn't exist. 

Marion Waruguru: Yes. Yes. Yeah. Women, sometimes we are too hard on ourselves.

And from, you know, as you know, I've been, um, pursuing a leadership degree. And one of the things that's always described about leadership is influence. So think about your area of influence and know that you're leading even in that, and just then, um, work on those strengths and the passion and the gifts that you have.

If you're good at doing this, keep doing that, lead on that, show others. There are many others who want to learn. So it's about taking that opportunity, any opportunity that presents itself and move with it. 

Maeve Carlin: Leading in small ways is still leading, isn't it? 

Marion Waruguru: Leading in small ways is still leading. I like that quote. I'll quote it one day. 

Maeve Carlin: As long as you credit me, Marion. 

Marion Waruguru: I'll credit it to Maeve Carlin, definitely.

The opportunity I've been given to lead even within Women's Interfaith Network - that has helped me a lot. I've learned a lot. I've strengthened my, my own skills. I've been given opportunities to improve on my skills, which is amazing. I still feel like working for a woman also, who kind of understands more or appreciates more what other women go through.

That has also helped because. I mean, our chairperson is, my boss, she's really excellent and very supportive. Always, any opportunities are presented, so, uh, opportunities that come up she's quite happy to support me to go and pursue, like the leadership training.

Maeve Carlin: Yes, I think we all feel within WIN that we're very lucky to have the supportive community that we do have. Well, thank you, Marion, so much for your time. Thank you for coming on the podcast. 

Marion Waruguru: Thank you very much for having me. 

Maeve Carlin: We hope you enjoyed our second bonus episode, learning more about the women behind the network. Watch the space for more bonus episodes with women from the WIN community and our next full length episode, which will be released as usual at the start of the month. In episode six, we're speaking to Zara Mohammed, the secretary general of the Muslim council oppression and the first woman and youngest leader to ever hold that post. Make sure you're subscribed wherever you're listening to this to find out as soon as it's released. 

Thank you for listening to this episode of Keeping Faith: A How To Guide. Subscribe now on your podcast app to be the first to hear about our upcoming episodes, and please leave a review or share with a friend to help more people find us. To find out more about the podcast, the 2024 Keeping Faith Programme or to get involved with the Women’s Interfaith Network, you can follow the links in our episode notes or go to wominet.org.uk. Until next time, Keep Faith!

Keeping Faith: A How-To Guide was created by Women's Interfaith Network. The podcast is co-produced by me, Maeve Carlin, and Adam Brichto. Our executive producer is Lady Gilda Levy. Theme music was composed by Jamie Payne and our logo was designed by Jasey Finesilver. Additional Support from Tara Corry.